Text Messages Back to August 2023

thanks Doug. a lot of history embedded in your gallery 10:23 PM

·MMS

I learned a lot reading the signs 10:23 PM

·MMS

Friday, October 20, 2023 · 8:57 PM

very nice 8:57 PM

·MMS

Monday, October 23, 2023 · 9:20 PM

Paul Rettinger

Yes

Saturday, October 28, 2023 · 2:48 PM

Fossil Mountain

It looked like there is a structure up there!

Binoculars have proved otherwise. 😀

Paul Rettinger

Doug, when are you going to PA again?

I vote to bring Kevin and see if we can get him to jump from the northern face.

Saturday, October 28, 2023 · 4:53 PM

Doug Wagoner

I think I will be in Evans City next weekend. Not 100% sure yet

Monday, November 6, 2023 · 9:24 PM

saving throw this, bitches

Thursday, November 23, 2023 · 7:28 AM

Paul Rettinger

Nonfiction Writers Sue OpenAI, Microsoft for Allegedly Using Their Books to Train ChatGPT
Nonfiction Writers Sue OpenAI, Microsoft for Allegedly Using Their Books to Train ChatGPT https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/tech/nonfiction-writers-sue-openai-microsoft-for-allegedly-using-their-books-to-train-chatgpt-5534755?utm_source=andshare

Nonfiction Writers Sue OpenAI, Microsoft for Allegedly Using Their Books to Train ChatGPT

The authors claim their books were used without permission or compensation.

www.theepochtimes.com

Happy Thanksgiving!

Saturday, November 25, 2023 · 11:14 PM

Paul Rettinger

Inside the UN Plan to Control Speech Online
Inside the UN Plan to Control Speech Online https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/article/inside-the-un-plan-to-control-speech-online-5534524?utm_source=andshare

Inside the UN Plan to Control Speech Online

The UN is escalating its war against ‘conspiracy theories’ and ‘misinformation’ by creating an ‘internet of trust.’

www.theepochtimes.com

Tuesday, December 5, 2023 · 10:07 PM

Doug Wagoner

I haven’t seen this in a long time >>

DM of the Rings Remaster: The Copious Backstory I – Twenty Sided

www.shamusyoung.com

Friday, Feb 2 · 11:31 AM

Doug Wagoner

Happy Groundhog Day, Paul. Or Imbolc. Or Candlemas. Or Lady’s Day. Or was there something else? Anyway, did you see your shadow?

Friday, Feb 2 · 1:47 PM

happy birthday

Friday, Feb 2 · 2:55 PM

Don Rea

Happy Tater Tot Day!

tot recipe

Friday, Feb 2 · 7:35 PM

Paul Rettinger

Hey Doug! It was cloudy this morning — no shadow!

Thank you Ric!

Don Rea

😀

Paul Rettinger

Thank you, Don — tater tot?

Monday, Apr 8 · 2:19 PM

Doug Wagoner

Oh no! A celestial dragon is nibbling at the sun! 🌞

(At least here in Plattsburgh NY)

cloudy as hell here

Don Rea

Clear, and central, Pennsylvania, luckily

Doug Wagoner

Well we are all going to die so it doesn’t matter if you see it coming. Also in other news they are restarting the Large Hadron Collider today. No connection I am sure.

Ric should move there.

I wonder if the dragon spits out the sunspot I can see like a watermelon seed.

so 9% chance of rain today

it is now raining

pennsylvania astronomy at its best

Doug Wagoner

Winner!

Congrats! You made your save vs astronomical event.

Don Rea

It is visibly darker already

Doug Wagoner

Ric says it’s pretty dark where he is.

Paul Rettinger

Astronomical collision! Jesus Saves! All others take half damage!

Doug Wagoner

It is the quality of the light that changes for me. Filtered, thinner.

Paul Rettinger

We have a beautiful day for watching the eclipse.

Doug Wagoner

Strange. The lights in the parking lot just came on…..

clouds just parted!

Don Rea

Doug, are you in the path of totality?

Excellent

Doug Wagoner

Yes

it is a bare sliver here

Doug Wagoner

Been fun, if so.

About five minutes to totality.

Paul Rettinger

we are through max eclipse

clouds are back

Doug Wagoner

Exiting now for us.

very nice

Doug Wagoner

No bad for my iPhone.

I couldn’t get my Sony to do shit on aperture or speed priority.

“Arthur!…..”

Don Rea

Sirens everywhere here. Maybe it is the end

Monday, Apr 8 · 6:31 PM

Paul Rettinger

It was very pretty.

Monday, Apr 8 · 8:28 PM

Paul Rettinger

Today, a Goldrog was summoned who threatened to swallow the sun.

Monday, Apr 8 · 10:17 PM

Doug Wagoner

How dare it!

Tuesday, Apr 9 · 12:31 AM

Paul Rettinger

But Blazing Star of Windameir Commanda thy shriveled soul appear And touching yet this Chest of Light I say to thee thy life take flight!

Saturday, Jun 1 · 9:18 AM

Doug Wagoner

ONLY THE PUREST MAY MOUNT ME

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/dungeonsoupYou must be this pure to ride the Pegasus ☝️This is an animated D&D/Fantasy parody!-✨ Subscribe for more: https:/…

www.youtube.com

Saturday, Jun 1 · 6:51 PM

Doug Wagoner

Squirrel Friend

An adventurer becomes best friends with an adorable squirrel! What could go wrong?Featuring my wife as the voice of the girl! It’s her first time voice actin…

www.youtube.com

Sunday, Jun 2 · 6:21 PM

Doug Wagoner

The closed captioning translates the green critters words for us.

Monday, Jun 3 · 12:02 AM

Paul Rettinger

Talk about squirrely text mesages…

Tuesday, Jun 4 · 9:39 PM

Doug Wagoner

Tuesday, Jun 4 · 11:40 PM

Paul Rettinger

Nice outfit!

Wednesday, Jun 5 · 7:09 AM

Doug Wagoner

Now we’re cooking with gas…

My rental kilt for Lodge arrived today.

Flirt!

Includes sporan and dirk

And ghillies

Don Rea

Ooh, yeah

Don’t forget to shave your legs

Thursday, Jun 6 · 5:43 PM

Doug Wagoner

My working life.

The Expert (Short Comedy Sketch)

Subscribe for more short comedy sketches & films: http://bit.ly/laurisb Buy Expert shirts & hoodies at https://laurisb.myshopify.com/ Funny business meeting …

www.youtube.com

Don Rea

That might be funny if I hadn’t actually had meetings not much less ridiculous

Yeah, I am afraid it was not funny for me. More of a trigger.

Doug Wagoner

“Geometry”

This article, if you substitute Shop-Vac stuff for Shrimp, is exactly what happened at Shop-Vac in the past two years. https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/25/business/red-lobster-bankruptcy-thai-union/index.html?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc

How a global seafood giant broke Red Lobster | CNN Business

Thai Union’s damaging decisions drove Red Lobster’s fall, former executives say.

www.cnn.com

It is scary how much this story matches Shop-Vac.

Doug Wagoner

This one isn’t much better than the first <<trigger warning>>

The Expert: Wrong Angle (Short Comedy Sketch)

Subscribe for more short comedy sketches & films: http://bit.ly/laurisb Buy Expert shirts & hoodies at https://laurisb.myshopify.com/ Square Project Ep1. Ano…

www.youtube.com

Friday, Jun 7 · 10:35 AM

Paul Rettinger

Fwd:
https://youtu.be/BKorP55Aqvg?si=XZr9OlTY9QAj9ry_. Doug — you have uncovered my company’s leadership!

The Expert (Short Comedy Sketch)

Subscribe for more short comedy sketches & films: http://bit.ly/laurisb Buy Expert shirts & hoodies at https://laurisb.myshopify.com/ Funny business meeting …

www.youtube.com

Doug Wagoner

Superhacker, I am…

Replied to a message:

Interesting. Strip mining your investments for short term gains.

Friday, Jun 7 · 1:23 PM

Paul Rettinger

Fwd:
This article, if you substitute Shop-Vac stuff for Shrimp, is exactly what happened at Shop-Vac in the past two years. https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/25/business/red-lobster-bankruptcy-thai-union/index.html?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc Ric, Thailand is a ChiCom satellite, and Mr. Chansiri is a favored crony. This is exactly what happens when such organizations get a hold of ANY competitive U.S. company.

How a global seafood giant broke Red Lobster | CNN Business

Thai Union’s damaging decisions drove Red Lobster’s fall, former executives say.

www.cnn.com

Fwd: This one isn’t much better than the first <<trigger warning>> Yep. He is one of our senior leadership. The funniest thing was when they scheduled a series of meetings to discuss reducing time spent in meetings.

Friday, Jun 7 · 4:49 PM

Don Rea

Doug Wagoner

Hahahah. Yes my life as well.

For us it is more like “using the vocabulary of agile without the messy ceremonies and documents”

Friday, Jun 7 · 7:44 PM

uh… my life

Friday, Jun 7 · 11:42 PM

Doug Wagoner

Looks like fun. Is that what you mean?

Saturday · 8:58 AM

Paul Rettinger

Ric — that’s what you get for letting Janice drive the golf cart.

Sunday · 4:27 PM

she does like to drive

they charge us for her to drive

$7

Paul Rettinger

Most of the women I know like to drive. That does not mean they are GOOD at it.

Doug Wagoner

Most of the men I know like to drive. They largely suck, too. Fully 70% of drivers think they are above average.

Sunday · 7:41 PM

Doug Wagoner

That is how we have survived as long as a species.

Paul Rettinger

The capacity of people for self-delusion is enormous.

I take the opposite view: self-delusion ENDANGERS the species.

Sunday · 10:08 PM

In our area, there is very little traffic. So people have not had to learn to drive precisely. This means people will stop in the middle of the street to let you turn, and everyone assumes you are going to cut a corner, so they stop back from intersections. All pickup drivers every single time take super wide turns and assume will will allow them that slack.

Driving properly is actually a danger. The Pittsburgh Left here sometimes is the “let everyone turn left”.

Anyway, I think all driving is getting worse and is a combination of immaturity, distraction and lack of personal responsibility. But I see that written down and see this:

On another note, I went to our local grocery store and got some mango popsicles. Seemed safe. They are fucking dipped in Tagin! Hot pepper lime salt!

In Watsontown PA!

Doug Wagoner

Tajin? That isn’t hot. Sounds good.

It tastes a lot like Tabasco to me but less hot. But not expected. I like them.

Doug Wagoner

Replied to a message:

We are talking about two different things.

Paul Rettinger

I like Teijin. They buy alot of my products.

Sunday · 11:59 PM

Doug Wagoner

Just wrong on so many levels….

Monday · 10:18 AM

Don Rea

Doug, looking through your pics from the trip, there are a LOT of photos of you guys in bars, I notice

Doug Wagoner

“Restaurants” I would say…

Paul Rettinger

Clink, clink, anothet drink…

Monday · 8:08 PM

Doug Wagoner

THE ELEVATOR – A Star Wars short film made with Unreal Engine 5.1

AFK: Divgergence graphic novel on sale now – https://www.amazon.com/dp/0473708930Support ‘For the Empire’ on patreon – http://www.patreon.com/peterhayneshttp…

www.youtube.com

Tuesday · 8:51 AM

Paul Rettinger

Ric, out of curiosity, how far are you from JFK in NYC?

4 ish hours

Paul Rettinger

Ok.

Doug Wagoner

LLMs Acting Deceptively – Schneier on Security

www.schneier.com

Who would have thought? 💭

Wednesday · 6:30 PM

Paul Rettinger

A computer program will provide information it is programmed to provide. The program has no conception of whether the information is true or false.

just like humans

a bunch of folks I know appreciate this podcast on ai stuff https://www.nytimes.com/column/hard-fork

Hard Fork

The future is already here.

www.nytimes.com

Paul Rettinger

I will grant you that there people like that. Kevin has had students that were kleptomaniacs, pathological liars, or both.

They seemed to have no concept of right vs wrong, reality vs falsehood.

In reality, they were probably journalists working for the New York Times.

kudos for kevin placing them so highly

Paul Rettinger

Maybe I misspoke: Kevin’s students all passed the state exams for reading and math this year, so it is clear they are no longer journalists.

I am proud of him making a real differencd

Paul Rettinger

Ans speak of the devil, he just came in from the phillipines.

Wednesday · 9:17 PM

Doug Wagoner

Kilts!

Paul Rettinger

Almost looks like someone joined the Masons…

are the aprons from 4 different lodges?

Doug Wagoner

Optical illusion, Paul.

Ric, no I am wearing Master apron, the guy on the right, Junior Warden and the other two Past Master aprons of various flavors.

ah got it

Doug Wagoner

So two are Lodge officers and two Past Masters.

Paul Rettinger

So you are the Master Poobah.

Doug Wagoner

Indeed.

Paul Rettinger

How is Linda?

Wednesday · 10:55 PM

Doug Wagoner

Eh. Being uncommunicative. She is going through something but not willing to talk about it yet.

Paul Rettinger

I can relate. Been through that with our kids multiple times.

Kevin just got back from the Philippines. So far, not interested in telling us much.

Thursday · 12:13 AM

Doug Wagoner

Replied to a message:

This seems to imply that you are thinking incorrectly about LLM programs. LLMs are not procedural in the way you are describing. The LLM is not programmed in a way that the output can be anticipated in any practical way. The programming paradigm is completely different from procedural languages. And it doesn’t matter that LLMs don’t understand the referents (I agree that they don’t; but that is irrelevant). Humans react to the output as if the program understands the referents and that is what counts. LLMs don’t need to understand the referents to be useful.

Thursday · 1:05 PM

Don Rea

Useful, or worse than useless if they are often wrong in non-obvious but potentially dangerous ways. One of the three main problems with how people are thinking about LLM-based so-called AI is that you can’t use it really productively or evaluate its output unless you are an expert in the subject you’re asking about

Doug Wagoner

Yeah we are always finding people falling into that trap. I was only speaking an out the positive case. But you are right there is a strong negative case. Dunning Krueger for the win! 🏆

Edited to “Yeah we are always finding people falling into that trap. I was only speaking about the positive case. But you are right there is a strong negative case. Dunning Krueger for the win! 🏆 ”

Spot on. Very productivity enhancing but only if you are good with the output already. I just had it write two letters for an event and it saved me an hour or more.

But I knew it did a good job.

It did an amazing job in fact. It added things I had missed.

Very helpful.

You can also tell instantly if it has too little training data. It sucks in those cases.

But it takes so little to convince useful idiots of untruths. I think this is going to be an interesting decade.

Doug Wagoner

We are being pushed to “use AI” as a corp initiative and the only useful thing I made it do was write an introduction for a Business Requirements doc. It missed all of the internal politics of the message but I could add that—the summary of what it had was nicely detailed. Saved me some time but I am not sold on the usefulness. For me anyway. I am starting to see Google search rankings being destroyed by AI generated content.

Paul Rettinger

What does this mean? “I am starting to see Google search rankings being destroyed by AI generated content. “

Doug Wagoner

I can’t find an immediate example but sometimes when I search, the first 10 or 20 examples are all AI generated. This isn’t new but the AI generated pages are much more convincing than the old static ones.

Still stacks of shit. 💩

Paul Rettinger

OH!

Doug Wagoner

Harvesting ad revenue from getting you to click into the LLM generated pages.

Paul Rettinger

I was wondering why the first 10-20 lines of my searches have been looking like nonsense lately.

Doug Wagoner

Yep.

Paul Rettinger

Scim past the first 20 lines, and I can usually find what I was looking for. Very annoying.

Doug Wagoner

Yes filling the web with thousands of pages of crap. 💩 Awesome.

Paul Rettinger

10:01 AM

Doug Wagoner

Replied to a message:

Actually, not in the sense Paul means. Humans are overwhelmed with sensory data and can make conceptual errors in their application of language or mathematics. But for humans with normal sensory apparatus, there is no doubt that the color of the daffodil is yellow. The computer never knows anything about the sensory qualia, only the symbols that humans use to indicate the qualia. “Yellowness” doesn’t mean anything to LLM. It can observe how the training data sets have used that symbol but nothing of the experience of yellow is contained in the symbol.

Edited to “Actually, not in the sense Paul means. Humans are overwhelmed with sensory data and can make conceptual errors in their application of language or mathematics. But for humans with normal sensory apparatus, there is no doubt that the color of the daffodil is yellow. The computer never knows anything about the sensory qualia, only the symbols that humans use to indicate the qualia. “Yellowness” doesn’t mean anything to LLM. It can observe how the training data sets have used that symbol but nothing of the experience of yellow is contained in the symbol. But even “observe” is a metaphor. ”

In some of the seminars I have helped with or conducted myself, introducing LLMs to clients or our ad club, we actually made it a drinking game. When anyone said “observer” or “think” or in any way attributed a human characteristic to the LLM, we had to drink.

The game failed because you ended up having to drink all the fucking time.

Paul Rettinger

I stand by my statement: an LLM is a COMPUTER PROGRAM. It may have adaptive aspects built into it, but it is a PROGRAM.

https://chatgpt.com/share/0b155b80-82ba-4945-a7ac-9152adf28c25

ChatGPT

A conversational AI system that listens, learns, and challenges

chatgpt.com

that’s a prompt describing the differences between an llm and a procedural software

I am not sure “program” is a useful term for our discussion.

Doug Wagoner

More importantly, why, Paul, is that an important distinction for you? What are you trying to emphasize? That is probably what will be interesting to discuss.

Don Rea

I obviously cannot speak for Paul, but I’d guess that what he means here is that no matter how complex or, from the observer’s point of view, non-deterministic the output seems to be, what an LLM is, is a whole lot of procedural programming. In that sense, claiming that it is not procedural is like claiming that a car is not a machine because it can be used for so many things. Possibly no one person understands every piece, but it is made of procedural pieces.

Paul Rettinger

Have any of you ever studied chaos math?

Don Rea

Only in broad strokes

Doug Wagoner

Nope. Not yet anyway.

Don Rea

I do not have the background to actually understand quantum mechanical theory

Paul Rettinger

Or quantum mechanics?

Chaos math and quantum mechanics can appear quite random to an observer.

HOWEVER…

The output is ALWAYS DETERMINATE. It is predictable given enough knowledge of the inputs and the functions.

Doug Wagoner

Agreed but I still want to know what that means to him.

Don Rea

Isn’t that simply because determinism is an artifact of math?

Paul Rettinger

Basically, what Ric said is correct: an LLM is a complex sequence of determinate events; if you know the inputs and the algorythms well enough, you can predict the outputs.

Well….

yes but input the same prompt again and again and you get different output but that is still procedural

Paul Rettinger

There is nothing that is truly random in the universe that we have ever been able to identify.

Don Rea

Alas, only Laplace’s demon can know all inputs in the physical world

Paul Rettinger

Sorta like when you use a computer randomization sequence to pick a number from 0 – 20.

You will get a different number every time, so it looks random. But it is not.

Don, you are making my point for me: we don’t know the inputs, so we mentally ascribe intelligence or randomization to things that are inanimate and determinate.

Don Rea

“There is nothing that is truly random in the universe that we have ever been able to identify.” Only because almost everything is more complex than we can understand. When you have to represent everything as a probability because you jus don’t know, there’s not way of knowing if it’s *really* probabilistic or notj

Paul Rettinger

A good book to think about: “Not a Chance” by RC Sproul.

Don Rea

What, operationally, is the difference between “It’s random” and “We will never know all the inputs”?

Paul Rettinger

Don, it literally makes all the difference in the universe.

Doug Wagoner

Not if we can never meter it.

Don Rea

That needs explanation

OK, just ordered that book

The publisher’s description makes it sound uninteresting, but I’ll read it on your recommendation

Doug Wagoner

I am curious how Paul is not going to end up destroying the human soul by his line of questioning. “Moist robots” and all that…

So on Laplace’s demon, I once read about how our prediction of the weather is getting better but will only every be so good. This book said that even if we had a complete weather station in nano size an inch apart across the entire earth and under the sea in and in the sky, and that system could feed all its data to a computer that could process it in realtime, we could still only predict the weather out a day or two at best.I believe this was in one of my chaos or fractal books.

Laplace’s demon only has each object’s place and vector.

But I think the weather example is still just that we don’t or can’t have access to enough inputs.

The other thing from that book I remember is that it is impossible to know how long an island’s coastline is because it changes based on scale. The closer you are the longer the coastline.

Don Rea

I make a throwaway reference and Ric picks it up and runs with it 😊

Well that is because I REMEMBERED the demon, but did NOT REMEMBER anything about it.

And then a cosmic ray hit a brain cell in my head and it triggers some memory about nano weather stations.

Doug Wagoner

“Laplace’s demon” is used to refer to the lack of omniscience in general, not confined to the original problem.

Paul Rettinger

Doug — I love your question or comment. Let me ask you this: when you make a decision, do you make your decision in a vacuum, or are there inputs that guide your decision-making?

Doug Wagoner

Are you asking my experience of the process or what is happening at the cosmic level?

Don Rea

I have to go meet with a contractor who’s putting in a new sewer line. Don’t have any exciting discussions without me

It always ends with bull shit.

Doug Wagoner

Do you mean Don’s sewer or our discussions?

Don Rea

Don and Becka shit, in this case

Doug Wagoner

Does Becka know you just gave away her secret?

Hooking up with a DnD girl

Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/crackermilkFollow Nic here: https://www.instagram.com/nic_the_pixie/Dungeons and Dragons is the ultimate way t…

www.youtube.com

While we are waiting to get to serious stuff….

9:28 PM

Paul Rettinger

I wish messages did not disappear from this channel. There were some comments made earlier to which I would have liked to respond.